1. Re: Keith and Bill
by: Nancy Waterous Whitehead <nwwhitehead@astound.net>
2. help again!!!!!!!!!!
by: <NYCFD1@aol.com>
3. (no subject)
by: <NYCFD1@aol.com>
4. Re: Keith and Bill
by: <dave.walters@comcast.net>
5. Re: help again!!!!!!!!!!
by: <afine@art-cetera.com>
6. Re: (no subject)
by: <Yasd@aol.com>
7. Re: Some sad news...
by: <ECRAM123@aol.com>
8. Re: help again!!!!!!!!!!
by: Eric Zaidins <ezaidins@gmail.com>
9. Re: Getting arrested by saying Keith Olbermann?
by: <ECRAM123@aol.com>
10. Re: POSSIBLE 50TH BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION FOR THE CLASS OF '75
by: <ECRAM123@aol.com>
11. Re: Getting arrested by saying Keith Olbermann?
by: <ECRAM123@aol.com>
12. Robert Alter Memorial Information
by: <afine@art-cetera.com>
13. Re: Getting arrested by saying Keith Olbermann?
by: <dave.walters@comcast.net>
14. Re: POSSIBLE 50TH BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION FOR THE CLASS OF '75
by: <Sselklub@aol.com>
15. Re: POSSIBLE 50TH BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION FOR THE CLASS OF '75
by: <JaneGaughran@aol.com>
16. Re: Re: POSSIBLE 50TH BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION FOR THE CLASS OF '75
by: <afine@art-cetera.com>
17. what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: <Captmando@aol.com>
18. Re: Re: Re: POSSIBLE 50TH BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION FOR THE CLASS OF '75
by: <Jeff@studentcenter.org>
19. Re: POSSIBLE 50TH BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION FOR THE CLASS OF '75
by: <dave.walters@comcast.net>
20. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: <Lotsoffish@aol.com>
21. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: Jim Katzenstein <jimk@starkaywhite.com>
22. RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: Patricia Sinatra <psinatra@comcast.net>
23. RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: lfrancis <louise.francis@comcast.net>
24. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: jan sidebotham <sidebothamj@yahoo.com>
25. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: Mark Feaster <mfeaster@optonline.net>
26. AP
by: <Lotsoffish@aol.com>
27. RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: <dave.walters@comcast.net>
28. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: <Captmando@aol.com>
29. Re: Am I over simplifying?
by: <Captmando@aol.com>
30. RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: lfrancis <louise.francis@comcast.net>
31. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: Glenn Martin <gmartin@adelphia.net>
32. Re: Getting arrested by saying Keith Olbermann?
by: <dmcquickly@comcast.net>
33. Re: Some sad news...
by: <dmcquickly@comcast.net>
34. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: <dmcquickly@comcast.net>
35. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: Jim Katzenstein <jimk@starkaywhite.com>
36. RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: jan sidebotham <sidebothamj@yahoo.com>
37. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: jan sidebotham <sidebothamj@yahoo.com>
38. Teacher Stories
by: <afine@art-cetera.com>
39. more thoughts on smart v not
by: Susan Craft <craft@kyowa-kpi.com>
40. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: <Lotsoffish@aol.com>
41. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: <Lotsoffish@aol.com>
42. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: Lynn Harbin <lharbin@swbell.net>
43. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: jan sidebotham <sidebothamj@yahoo.com>
44. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: jan sidebotham <sidebothamj@yahoo.com>
45. RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: lfrancis <louise.francis@comcast.net>
46. RE: more thoughts on smart v not
by: Susan Craft <craft@kyowa-kpi.com>
47. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: <dmcquickly@comcast.net>
48. RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: <dmcquickly@comcast.net>
49. RE: more thoughts on smart v not
by: <dmcquickly@comcast.net>
50. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: <Captmando@aol.com>
51. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: <NYCFD1@aol.com>
52. Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
by: <dave.walters@comcast.net>
-------------------- 1 --------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:53:57 -0800
From: "Nancy Waterous Whitehead" <nwwhitehead@astound.net>
Subject: Re: Keith and Bill
Thanks for the reminder about onegoodmove.org, Pat. They have the video from Thursday's Countdown I referred to in my email:
http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2006/03/keith_olbermann.html
And a lot of other great stuff!
Nancy
-------------------- 2 --------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:26:58 EST
From: NYCFD1@aol.com (Ray Paletta)
Subject: help again!!!!!!!!!!
i tried to send an email to all of you but it didn't work !!!!!!!! so ill
try again,
my sisterinlaw entered her baby in a contest. the winner by vote wins a
neiman marcus portrait . all you have to do is copy and paste this address and
click on contest and vote on the valentine baby # 10
http://www.expressionspb.com
thanx
ray
-------------------- 3 --------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:38:07 EST
From: NYCFD1@aol.com (Ray Paletta)
Subject: (no subject)
Dear Amy,
Our thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family
Ray and Mary Jane Paletta
-------------------- 4 --------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:47:14 +0000
From: dave.walters@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Keith and Bill
It was hysterical! Keith does deserve an emmy for it, no doubt about it. I heard O'Reilly on National Public Radio's "Fresh Air", interviewed by one of America's greatest interviewers, Terri Gross. Because she 'criticized' him, he actually got up walked out of the studio! O'Reilly has got to be one of the greatest cry-babies in the "news" media today.
David
-------------------- 5 --------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:29:38 -0500
From: <afine@art-cetera.com> Alan Fine
Subject: Re: help again!!!!!!!!!!
This email link worked and I voted.
Let us know if we made a difference please, Ray.
Alan
>
> From: Hastings Class of '75 (plus or minus a few years) <hastings@art-cetera.com>
> Date: 2006/03/11 Sat PM 09:28:33 EST
> To: Hastings Class of '75 (plus or minus a few years) <hastings@art-cetera.com>
> Subject: help again!!!!!!!!!!
>
> From the HASTINGS CLASS OF '75
> (also including teachers and other classes)
> EMAIL BULLETIN BOARD
> www.art-cetera.com/hastings
> ---------------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:26:58 EST
> From: NYCFD1@aol.com (Ray Paletta)
> Subject: help again!!!!!!!!!!
>
> i tried to send an email to all of you but it didn't work !!!!!!!! so ill
> try again,
>
> my sisterinlaw entered her baby in a contest. the winner by vote wins a
> neiman marcus portrait . all you have to do is copy and paste this address
and
> click on contest and vote on the valentine baby # 10
> http://www.expressionspb.com
>
> thanx
>
> ray
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> This message has been sent to -- and seen by -- 117 classmate,
> teacher and friend email addresses!
>
> To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> hastings@art-cetera.com with "unsubscribe" in the subject.
>
>
>
-------------------- 6 --------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:36:45 EST
From: Yasd@aol.com (Amy Alter Jefferies)
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Ray,
Thank you so much. It means so much to me to have heard from you.
Love,
Amy
-------------------- 7 --------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:15:23 EST
From: ECRAM123@aol.com (Marce Maicovski Bailes)
Subject: Re: Some sad news...
Sorry to hear the news
Marce
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:29:00 -0500
From: <afine@art-cetera.com> (Alan Fine)
Subject: Some sad news...
Amy's father, Robert H. Alter, died at his home on March 10, 2006, surrounded
by his loving family.
Funeral services 11am Sunday, Edwards-Dowdle Funeral Home, Dobbs Ferry, NY.
-------------------- 8 --------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:58:47 -0500
From: "Eric Zaidins" <ezaidins@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: help again!!!!!!!!!!
Done. All the best!
Eric
On 3/11/06, Hastings Class of '75 (plus or minus a few years) <
hastings@art-cetera.com> wrote:
>
> From the HASTINGS CLASS OF '75
> (also including teachers and other classes)
> EMAIL BULLETIN BOARD
> www.art-cetera.com/hastings
> ---------------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:26:58 EST
> From: NYCFD1@aol.com (Ray Paletta)
> Subject: help again!!!!!!!!!!
>
> i tried to send an email to all of you but it didn't work !!!!!!!! so ill
> try again,
>
> my sisterinlaw entered her baby in a contest. the winner by vote wins a
> neiman marcus portrait . all you have to do is copy and paste this address
> and
> click on contest and vote on the valentine baby # 10
> http://www.expressionspb.com
>
> thanx
>
> ray
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> This message has been sent to -- and seen by -- 117 classmate,
> teacher and friend email addresses!
>
> To unsubscribe, please send an email to
> hastings@art-cetera.com with "unsubscribe" in the subject.
>
>
>
-------------------- 9 --------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:19:00 EST
From: ECRAM123@aol.com (Marce Maicovski Bailes)
Subject: Re: Getting arrested by saying Keith Olbermann?
James,
He must put on a good show when he knows he's being taped. Ha ha. If you
want to listen to the tape you can hear it in full at _www.850koa.com_
(http://www.850koa.com/) Link on Listen and then pick "Overland High School
Teacher Rant". I listened to it in full and found it very interesting.
It
sounded more like political science and not much Geography, but what do I know?
Anyway, hearing the whole tape did not sound as bad to me as the short
segment I'd heard earlier, but maybe that's because I agree with some of his
points. Nonetheless, there was not much discussion. I think his enthusiasm just
got the better of him.
Marce
-------------------- 10 --------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:23:23 EST
From: ECRAM123@aol.com (Marce Maicovski Bailes)
Subject: Re: POSSIBLE 50TH BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION FOR THE CLASS OF '75
I will be going back east this summer, but later in June, so if this date
remains the same, count me out and enjoy!
Marce Bailes
-------------------- 11 --------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:24:56 EST
From: ECRAM123@aol.com (Marce Maicovski Bailes)
Subject: Re: Getting arrested by saying Keith Olbermann?
James,
Label me a Conservative if it makes you feel better but it may interest you
to know that Sean Allen, the student that Dave says "illlegally" taped
the
teacher, was also invited to the Today show and then uninvited, for some
reason. You have to wonder why and think, hmmmmm. Also, instead of standing
up
for the things the teacher may have said, this teacher's lawyer has accused
the student of doctoring the tape....give me a break. ( I heard Sean speak on
the radio and he was quite the eloquent 16 y.o. The issue was not what the
teacher said, but the fact that he did not present a balanced point of view
in the classroom; this being the policy of the school board. In response,
Bennish (the teacher) said he always presents balanced views, "though not
always
at the same time". Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Other students confirmed that
this is his usual style of teaching.
BTW, I missed all those enlightened debates as I was not in AP.
Marce Bailes AKA Maicovski
-------------------- 12 --------------------
The service will take place Sunday at 11:00 am in the Edwards and Dowdle Funeral home in Dobbs Ferry.
Shiva will be at 10 Old Jackson Ave., Unit 80 in Hastings at the St. Andrew golf course on Monday and Tuesday evening starting at 5:00.
-------------------- 13 --------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:05:42 +0000
From: dave.walters@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Getting arrested by saying Keith Olbermann?
Marce, I agree with you some. I don't have any 'content' critique of the teachers points. I think he did try to elicit a reaction from the students, which Sean clearly provided (and he did it well, BTW). It was 'rant-like' because he didn't really give students too much time to ask questions, reply, etc. but he certainly entertained comments when provided by students and didn't seem to try to shut them up. He doesn't sound like a great teacher, not up to par with our own experience in Hastings.
I'm probably the most left wing student to come out of HHS. I run one of the largest, most overtly leftist web sites on the Net. But I think this teacher was second class and should of allowed, indeed, demanded, more discussion. Ritner used to come in to the class room and, on purpose, make a comment, a 'rant' if you will like "The Christians of the 1st and 2nd Crusades killed 100,000 Jews and twice as many Muslims!" Then, looking at the nearest student wearing a crucifix, point at them as state "How can you defend that!?!" We would then have an interesting discusison of how Cristianity spread in Europe, it's methods, theology, whatever. He would get students to challenge their own preconceptions about the world today, and how it got this way. I loved it! It was give and take. Thus, 'balance' was not achieved by what the teacher stated, but by how the discussion evolved. If we came out with more questions than we had when the initial statement was made, all the better.
The issue of balance should never be applied to the content of the lesson from the teacher, it should be the result of a discussion. I think that teacher failed to do this, and, should be criticized for his poor teaching style, at best. That he should be suspended, IMO, is a greater crime than ranting about Bush's politics or American imperialism.
David Walters
-------------------- 14 --------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:47:31 EST
From: Sselklub@aol.com (Susan Stein Klubock)
Subject: Re: POSSIBLE 50TH BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION FOR THE CLASS OF '75
Sorry Alan. This can't take the place of our 50th. We still have another
year until our 50th-Except for Larry Kaiser, who turns 50 in Dec. I turn 50
in Jan. The rest of you are WAY younger!
Of course, we could just meet for a summer outing....
Sue
-------------------- 15 --------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:57:54 EST
From: JaneGaughran@aol.com
Subject: Re: POSSIBLE 50TH BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION FOR THE CLASS OF '75
alan -- are there tentative dates being considered? jane
-------------------- 16 --------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:41:05 -0500
From: <afine@art-cetera.com> (Alan Fine)
Subject: Re: Re: POSSIBLE 50TH BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION FOR THE CLASS OF '75
Dear Susan and Jane,
First, let me say "Oops." I thought we were turning 50. How great to realize I'm not as old as I thought. Since I believe Jeff Edelman wants to make this multi-class event an annual fund raiser, we can celebrate both our 49th and 50th birthdays if we want and people are available.
As usual, I will opt for whatever the most people want to do.
As far as the date, I'm not in charge. This again is Jeff Edelman and the Hastings Youth Council's baby.
JEFF? Is the date up for debate?
Alan
-------------------- 17 --------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:57:29 EST
From: Captmando@aol.com (John Capuano)
Subject: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
this is the one criticism i would have of the hastings high school staff...of
our time....if you were selectected..you would be groomed... encourged to be
enlightened,,,to share in the discussions..the conversations of the times...if
you were not one of the "chosen few"..it was hoped you would fall
thru the
cracks ..very quietly..well..mr.hogan had his hand out...but i always felt it
was a nice jesture..not reality...
....just falling thru was usually not the case...., as exemplified in the case
of ray obriske..and so many..many..countless others....luckily i..and a few
other survivors.. had parental support to pull us thru...many "children"
did
not....i also had the good fortune to have corey shaff as a friend....we had
many discussions of our own back then...and when i brought up the fact..in a
weak moment...that it would have been great to participate in any one of the
"clubs"..corey took it one step furthur on picture day.....we successfully
joined
the "chosen few" in many of the yearbook shots....my children are
always
asking how i had the time to be so involved in after school activities....i
just
tell them corey was a good influence on me..and he was.....johnny cap
-------------------- 18 --------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:56:21 -0500
From: "Jeff Edelman" <Jeff@studentcenter.org>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: POSSIBLE 50TH BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION FOR THE CLASS OF '75
I was wondering why you guys were in such a rush to turn 50. I look forward to next year when all of you from the class of 1975 are in your 50's while I will still be a youngin'.
The June 3 date is set. It was so difficult to get a decent date. As beautiful a setting as the waterfront is, I actually wanted to throw this at Reynolds Field because there'd be a lot more room. But there was not a single date available all during this time for Reynolds Field, or any other school property for that matter. Everything is booked solid. So we're official for June 3. I hope that many of you can make it.
I of course hope that all of you in the area will want to attend this June 3 event. It really should be fun. But I would also agree that if your class is planning a special event for your 50th in 2007, that you should have your own separate thing planned. We do plan to make this June 3 event an annual thing. You guys have an entire year to plan an event for your 50th. But I'll throw this out for a thought. As you can see, this event is from 5PM to 8:30 PM. In 2007, why not schedule your 50th as some kind of dinner event. You could use this Hastings Youth Council HHS event as your "Happy Hour." In other words, drop by from like 5 to 6:30 and then all meet for dinner somewhere in the vicinity. Hell, you might even want to make it right there at the Harvest. That way, you start off outside at an event with all HHS alumni and then move inside for your own party. Just a thought. Alan and I are going to meet to talk about this and other things. I definitely don't want to interfere with anything that your class is planning to do.
Jeff Edelman
-------------------- 19 --------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 02:19:52 +0000
From: dave.walters@comcast.net
Subject: Re: POSSIBLE 50TH BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION FOR THE CLASS OF '75
I turn 50 this November thankyouvery much !!
David
-------------------- 20 --------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:16:51 EST
From: Lotsoffish@aol.com (John Capuano)
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
now we know how i almost fell thru..i really should check for those
typos......ha....john
-------------------- 21 --------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:55:44 -0500
From: Jim Katzenstein <jimk@starkaywhite.com>
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
John,
I was also one of those who made it into those Year Book photographs.
I do want to reply to your posting which involves my mother Florence who
was very active in reactivating the Hastings Historical Society and was
one of its earliest Presidents.
My mother was either asked or volunteered to do a walking tour of
Hastings with a class that graduated a few years after ours. I am sure
some of us had brothers, sisters or, cousins in this class. Anyway, the
Chairman of the History Department only wanted the AP and the "average"
students to go on the tour. He specifically stated not to bother with
the "dummies" because they would learn nothing. Well, my mother was
infuriated and said "everybody goes or nobody goes!" She then proceeded
to take the three groups out on separate on tours of Hastings historic
sites.
My mother related to my family at dinner how much more on the ball the
"dummies" were to everybody else. They asked better questions and
saw
things the other two groups didn't.
Later on in the year we were out to dinner at the Chart House. One of
the "dummy" students parents were also there and my mother went up
to
them and told them how their daughter was one of the brightest students
of the three groups. I can tell you that I saw tears well up in the
mothers eyes.
Mind you that the above events took place over 25 years ago but still
stand out clearly in my memory.
Just to be fair John, there were some truly excellent teachers that did
care about us struggling students. Marge Plant, Bob Rittner, Mr. Bray,
Mrs. Shivano, to name just a few.
Jim K
-------------------- 22 --------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:01:41 -0800
From: "Patricia Sinatra" <psinatra@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
I love these posts.
I started out in AP classes and ended up in "the regular classes."
I didn't
find this personally problematic nor did I find it much of an issue--then.
I think we all recognize that there are bright students, many among us that
were not in AP that for a number of reasons, did not "shine" in high
school
but eventually achieved great success financially, professionally, or
otherwise in life.
However, I think an academically tiered system this may create significant
insecurity in children which further prevents them from learning. I believe
it is better to have all levels of ability in the classroom (with the
exception of those that are autistic, etc) but I am sure many of us don't
agree with this concept.
This mindset is pervasive in all aspects of our society. In Silicon
Valley, I deal with physicians, lawyers, scientists, and other professionals
-- everyday -- where attitudes like this prevail (for a long time, Google
would only hire Ivy League graduates!) These people and their attitudes are
really a piece of work!
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Time to catch a plane.......... to JFK actually. I will be at the Harvest
around 9 pm if anyone is around. I am visiting family tomorrow then I am
off to NY and DC.
Pat
-------------------- 23 --------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:25:15 -0800
From: "lfrancis" <louise.francis@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
John -- what an evocative email -- you brought me back to the halls of
HHS. Preoccupations, preconceptions and prejudices affected us all I
imagine, even in more progressive places, like HHS was compared to other
schools. How long did it (or will it) take each of us to shake off the
ones we were subjected to? Your and Jim's emails underscored what I
struggle with as a parent -- to recognize how much success depends on a
child having an adult in his or her life who has faith in him, who
supports him, and, who, instead of trying to shield him from unfairness,
prejudice and competition, teaches him how to stand up for himself in
the face of it. I wonder whether, unbeknownst to you, some of the
"chosen" didn't get that kind of support at home and luckily got it
from
a teacher -- the best teachers, like the ones Jim experienced as not
operating from preconceived notions. Perhaps the "chosen" too had
experiences of being beaten down by teachers because of bias. (Who was
the history teacher who hated girls -- was it the same one Jim writes
about? I can't remember -- I just know I learned from an older sister to
stay far away from him.) Luckily you had Corey. I too had friends who
urged me to fight for myself and have fun. I think that is my best
memory of HHS; being supported by my friends. -- Louise
P.S. As an adult, when I open the yearbook, 2 things never fail to
delight me -- your omnipresent mugs in those club photos and the senior
candids.
-------------------- 24 --------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:20:47 -0800 (PST)
From: jan sidebotham <sidebothamj@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
My rant, in fond memory of Esther Liberman:
As a teacher and as someone whose life was changed for the better by HHS teachers,
I'll weigh in. Hastings High School clearly stratified students, probably in
terms of socio-economic factors, and it was a case of the rich getting richer.
Those of us who were privileged in the first place probably got more attention
and help and credit than we deserved; there were also lots of intelligent, worthy
students who were labeled as not worth the trouble and weren't given the encouragement
and understanding they needed to succeed.
I was a lucky one. I know it. I also know that there were a lot of what John
calls the "chosen few" who were miserable and would have traded every
good grade they got for a happy home or a little inclusion in their classmates'
society. They fell through different cracks maybe, but some of them ended up
just like Ray Obriskie.
The teachers who helped me might not have helped others, and who am I to say
they should have directed their energy towards me and not someone else? But
give some of those teachers a break. . . A kid who has been neglected or unappreciated
builds a shell and sometimes that shell can be tough to crack -- and it can
be misinterpreted as hostility or contempt. . . There are some truly gifted
teachers who recognize the seed of potential in every kid and can make it grow.
There are some teachers who see the seed and can't . . . There are some who
don't even see it and are so self-absorbed that all they care about is saving
face or maintaining control. Some teachers who were good for some people weren't
for others. I once got nailed in the hall for the way I dressed and walked and
how I wore my hair -- a totally personal attack -- by an adult who a lot of
people adored.
Given how little respect our society accords teachers -- and it's worse now
than then -- I think the expectations are high, and the critiques are harsh.
I don't know anyone who became a teacher so that he/she could make a kid feel
worthless (and I've never heard a colleague refer to a kid as a "dummy"
-- no self-respecting teacher respects a teacher who talks like that, and I'd
bet that the history teacher at HHS who used that terminology was not universally
admired by his colleagues) -- but I know a lot of teachers who aren't equipped
to deal with people, much less kids, who end up making kids feel worthless.
And I knew some kids who made kids feel worthless . . .
I think the inequalities took root outside of school, in terms of economics,
ethnicity, race, class, etc. -- and they continued to fluorish within school.
I would bet my life on the conviction that some of our teachers went into teaching
to make the playing field a little more even.
Oh yeah, we were all influenced by Corey Shaff, God bless his irreverent, rebellious,
perceptive soul.
-------------------- 25 --------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:42:27 -0500
From: Mark Feaster <mfeaster@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
Hey Jim K. & Cappy,
What about Ron Feaster? I personally know for a fact that he cut you two
guys plenty of slack during his hall monitoring duties. Not that you spent
that much time outside of the class room.
Give a little credit were credit is do.
Take care,
Mark
-------------------- 26 --------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:44:16 EST
From: Lotsoffish@aol.com (John Capuano)
Subject: AP
i believe i have offended a few...sorry... lets put it in simple,
understandable terms...ALL the children should be.... should have been.... accepted......
accepted.... for an AP of their own....in whatever ....... this is where
society as a whole is losing the battle!..to give hope......possiblities..that,
is
what it is all about.......sure, some could not.....cannot.... be
saved......anyway....my point is.....the attention should have been given to
those
lacking.....not to those who are at the top!..... because of a few unacceptable
faults some CHILDREN were totally rejected...considered
unworkable..unsalvagable....there is where most of the time..and work..should
have been..not with the
AP....kids in AP were getting there anyway...right pat?......give all the kids
a
light to follow....
...we were all very fortunate to attend hastings....my brother and i were
taken from the yonkers school system in hopes of a better education......what
about all those who cannot leave the "schools of dicipline"?....the
schools of
the street?......all forgotten..and who knows what has been lost....the genius
we have let slip by......john cap...
-------------------- 27 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 03:02:59 +0000
From: dave.walters@comcast.net
Subject: RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
I have to thank John for his letter. It brought back a lot of issues for me (so, why am I thanking him?). I was very much betwix and between. I received straight 'C's in all my classes except for social-studies, where I pretty much got 'A's from 7th grade forward (er upward? C- in English). It was terrible for me and I dropped Math and English after 10th Grade. I don't know how I got away with that, but I did. I had terrible academic type confidence problems and it's effected (affected? See??!!!) the rest of my life. Never really got over it. Parent's would say "...but he's so bright". I hated that, especially since it didn't manifest itself in school, so how did they know?
I wasn't in any clubs except the model-UN and model-Congress clubs, which were not clubs in the sense that we met all the time after school, we just went to the overnight stays at other high schools to debated politics. Robert Berry, Peter Hazou and others also participated. I never felt excluded from anything else, but I wasn't exactly material for the math and science clubs.
David
-------------------- 28 --------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:46:26 EST
From: Captmando@aol.com (John Capuano)
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
well written jan...were you groomed in ashmanns AP class?....
mark feaster..its been too long mark...and yes...mr. feaster had a
refreshingly open mind....ha... he should have had mike mayfield and i arrested......my
seemingly general remarks are getting me in a little trouble here..but let me
draw an analogy..as best my lower-
than-average-high-school-grade-average-can-muster..
i coached basketball this year..payed very little attention to the gifted
and concentrated on the not-so-gifted..the team made it to the playoffs...3rd
in
the league...not bad.... the surprising story .the thing that made it a
true event for me......was that a young boy named
nick....shy..introverted......not known for his athletic..let alone hoop abilities...led
our team to our
victories....i think we would have won more games had i put the "gifted"
at
point....some of the parents were disappointed....but i saw a flicker of light
in
this kid......nick...is no longer the same..the more i payed attention to him
and stayed with him..the stronger he got......he accelled on the court.....
his
mom made a point to call me and let me know...his academics were on the
rise......i had given him the gift of confidence..i believed..and he knew
it.......with some doubt at times... i stayed with it..and there he is
now.....surrounded by kids in the hallway at school...grades moving up......and
just
because.... i took the time to "work" with nick...i don't know if
i will ever feel as
good about anything else i do for anyone in my life.....
and i know there are..were... alot of teachers who feel this way....i am not
too often an idealist...far too often cliche'...we have all heard this story
before.....just worth telling again..i think.....john cap
-------------------- 29 --------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:57:32 EST
From: Captmando@aol.com (John Capuano)
Subject: Re: Am I over simplifying?
hi alan....it is more about giving the child a REASON to try.....not about
those who tried and those who didnt..the problem is still there looking at it
like that....all children have potential...tapping into it...now that is the
challenge......john cap......p.s.....hey david and al...when are you guys ever
gonna come fishing with me?.....lets do a 50th birthday fishing bash in the
hamptons!...GO YELLOW JACKETS!
-------------------- 30 --------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:26:26 -0800
From: "lfrancis" <louise.francis@comcast.net> (Louise Frances)
Subject: RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
It seems like we started talking about divisions and ended up talking
about similarities. How refreshing. John --I doubt your days of giving
confidence to young people who particularly need it are over; in this
culture, I suspect you will have many more opportunities.
-Louise
-------------------- 31 --------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:55:25 -0500
From: "Glenn Martin" <gmartin@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
My oh my, never in my wildest dreams did I ever think that my posting last
week about Keith Olbermann/Bill O'Reilly would open "Pandora's box"
with
opinions about freedom of speech, political views, teacher agenda's and our
personal issues in high school. Wow! What a great forum. Why did it take 30
years for all this to come out?
To Jan...Bravo!... You make an excellent point. Less fortunate people live
in a shell and never crack it. Well-to-do kids appear to be better accepted
in terms of teacher-student relationships and society as a whole. I did not
grow up in a rich environment nor did I grow up poor. I was strictly middle
class. In fact, I grew up on Rosedale Ave. which was often looked as the
dividing line(Broadway as well) between the families on the "hill"
and those
in the "village". I was never an AP student but I always wanted the
attention from teachers that I often saw given to the "smarter" students.
I
also wanted to feel "cool" and hang out with people I thought were
cool
(Cappi, Mayfield, Shivas, etc). But thanks to other classmates, I was
introduced to a church youth group and a Christian life that was quite
different than my "wanna be cool life". Throughout high school, I
had a
well kept secret. I hung out with my cool friends during school and on the
weekend I would leave school each day, drive to Mount Vernon to a church
and tutor more less-advantaged kids than Hastings could ever produce.
Obiskie included. On my way home....I felt Really Cool (Does anyone really
know what it was like to stay up late on the weekends, drink beer with your
"cool" friends then get up early Sunday morning to teach Sunday School?)
As
much as I wanted to be accepted by the teachers who gave most of their
attention to the more affluent students, I found my niche in life which
helped me "crack that shell". It would eventually lead me to do mission
work
in the Virgin Islands during my senior year and eventually, become a
missionary to Alaska. The greatest lesson I ever learned, if you really want
to be accepted and to be "cool", try living on an island in the middle
of
the Bering Sea and live with the Eskimos(I froze my butt off but I was
really cool to the kids I worked with). As Jan mentioned, social and family
economics may influence who a person is, but I believe it is the "person"
who chooses the course that they take in life.
And may I add a few other thoughts. When it was time to submit our senior
candid, I submitted a photo of me in front of a cross. That was my statement
of who I really was. It was rejected by Mrs. Dalmas and I was told to
submit a different candid. If I had the wisdom that I have today, I would
have fought harder to keep that photo in the yearbook. But back then, we
were taught to respect our parents and our teachers. In fact, there were
only two teacher who saw me for who I really was, Marge Jayson and Bethel
Graves, bless their souls. They were members of our church and always gave
me that little smile or "wink". They knew me.
And my most memorable experience in High School was the day Dave Richter
streaked down the hallway. I'll never forget Mrs. Dlamas holding her chest,
gasping for air and later, being consoled by Mr. Aschman. I sure wanted him
to drop her. And life goes on......
Glenn
-------------------- 32 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:52:22 +0000
From: dmcquickly@comcast.net (Greg Vaughn)
Subject: Re: Getting arrested by saying Keith Olbermann?
Hello. There's a party going on in Cell Block Number 9. The Blues Brothers
are the entertainment. It's actually pretty nice here: Most of us share the
same political convictions. No need to break us out--we're writing the new Democrat
Manifesto (and penning the memoirs of the late Michael Dukakis--who hasn't actually
died, he just hasn't been heard from since 1989). Did I mention the Red Cross
came and visited us today? They left shaking their heads at how shabbily we've
been treated, but we assured them that it was we who have trashed our cells,
in an attempt to make it look like the Bush administration was maltreating us.
Don't let that get out.
On the romantic front, I have a new friend. He's called Popi by the other cell
mates, but I just call him Sir.
Keith came and gave a rousing speech last week. Actually, it wasn't a speech,
since the Administration has final censure on all speeches. He pretty much just
stood there silently for about 25 minutes. But it was good to see him. He looks
good.
Food is awful. They found all the old Hastings lunch ladies and brought them
here. Rumor has it they're also serving prison sentences for attempted poisoning,
but I don't believe rumors. Keith taught us that: Don't believe any rumors you
hear. Make them up, they're easier for you to believe that way. (I had to say
that. They go through our emails and "edit" them. I want to stay on
the good side of the prison administration.)
I'll definitely make it to the 50th birthday party--if you hold it here (I can't
actually say where I'm being held...that would violate section 17 (b) of the
Patriot Act) in the courtyard. Jim, thanks for leaking my location, but you
might want to take a trip to see the polar bears in Churchill, Ontario for a
few weeks.
Anyway, love reading all the emails they let get through. On a serious note,
I was sorry to hear about the passing of Chief Schnibbe. Although I never met
him, it's always a loss when someone with such a commitment to public service
and the public good dies.
Send cakes. Preferably sharp ones. We won't actually try to escape. We just
want our civil rights to be beaten out of us so we can show the world what a
travesty of democracy our tyrannical government has become. (I encoded that,
and placed a special decoder in the email, so it'll un-code itself before it
gets to Alan.)
Love you all.
Greg
-------------------- 33 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:03:37 +0000
From: dmcquickly@comcast.net (Greg Vaughn)
Subject: Re: Some sad news...
Amy, I'm so sorry to hear this unhappy news. You're in my heart and prayers.
Greg
-------------------- 34 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:01:20 +0000
From: dmcquickly@comcast.net (Greg Vaughn)
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
More from me. This will be it for a day or two, I promise. I need to catch my breath after this long missive!
Jan and Pat and John all have great points. They are not exclusive of each other. They are different sides, different impressions, of the educational experience. Even Alan's recollection about not wanting to be in AP (we shared that desire) is instructive to all of us.
I'm a teacher, too, have been for 11 years now. Along the line I got the reputation as a good teacher for those kids falling through the cracks. But it ain't easy, John. A few stories to show how hit-and-miss that role can be.
My first year of teaching, there was a girl named Amy in my 9th grade social studies class. Cute as a button, brilliant, able to intelligently challenge what we were doing and discussing (yes, I may give my point of view, but I always allow discussion! lol). Amy was, however, clearly troubled at home. Mine was the only class she passed. As always, she had to earn it: I didn't give anybody (and still don't) a free pass. I do try to grade on how well students do compared to what my expectations are of that student, but those expectations necessarily go up (and I let the students know they are going up) as time goes on. I'm not bragging, I'm just pointing out how difficult it is.
The Amy story has a sad ending. In the fall of her junior year she stopped coming to school. I knew this because I had her sister, who was more well-adjusted than Amy. Anyway, early that fall, Amy stopped coming to school. A week later they found her boyfriend's abandoned car in St. Louis. Nobody ever heard from her again.
Then there's Pat, a student of mine in 9th grade and again this year, in 11th. Pat's a good athlete but nobody will ever confuse him with Einstein. The thing of it is, though, that in spite of his obvious lassitude in class, he has a terrific mind for business. I encourage that in him. He responded positively to me, the way he responds positively to constructive coaches. He's passing my class with a B+. In his other classes he's getting Cs and Ds.
And here's the thing about those two stories. So many factors go into each student's success or failure in school. Nowadays teachers generally recognize the 7 Intelligences (there's an 8th, but we don't talk about that in public schools). We tend to recognize that a student may suck at math, say, but does really well in sports. Or in music (actually, if they're good in music, they tend to be pretty good in sports). Or writing. Or building things. The good teachers can recognize that not all students are, or should be expected to be, equally good in all things. We look for the talents of the students and try, as best we can, to enhance their overall performance by pointing out that intelligence (which we just call a skill). We do that in the hopes that that validation will encourage them to put forth effort, to not cut classes, to stay off drugs (a huge problem in a lot of suburban schools).
On the other hand, two things support John's assertion that some teachers teach only to the chosen. We had two English teachers who drove out the lower-end kids the first week of classes. They wound up going into one of two other teachers' classes who were more accepting of the variety of skills in the class. Both these teachers got Teacher Of The Year awards, but most of us generally recognize that they shoehorned their way into that, because of who they taught, and who they refused to teach.
Also, back in the 70s (and into the late 80s at least) there was what is known in the industry as "tracking". Student competence in math and reading was assessed, and students were put into classes that were skill appropriate. They tended to travel together through the schedule, and as a result didn't get the opportunity to "try for" the upper end classes.
This doesn't happen nearly so much anymore--at least, not on a conscious, formal level. However, all of us will recognize that some of our own children are better at math than others. As a result, if the school offers higher-level and lower-level math classes for the same grade levels in high school, the students will be unintentionally tracked through those classes, which necessarily limits their schedule options.
That's part of the difficulty. (I won't go into depth that parents have the greatest affect on a child's will to be educated. Most of us probably know that.) The other part of the difficulty is that little thing called "motivation." As much as parents might like teachers to work magic and figure out a way to motivate kids, it's not possible. And it's what helps to explain the Amy and Pat stories, and the Ben story I'll share in a moment.
I once thought it was possible to motivate kids, but I'm sure Jan, Nancy W., and the rest of us in education realize at this point that the old saw "You can lead a horse to water" must have been written by a singularly observant teacher. It's a simple truth about human nature. Motivation to succeed or fail doesn't come easily, and it certainly doesn't come from parents or teachers or anyone else (well, maybe peer pressure to an extent).
Now the Ben story. I have a student, Ben, in my class who's the typical crack-faller. Very smart young man (as many of the crack-fallers seem to be), but decidedly unmotivated. His girlfriend, who is in the same class, tries really hard to get him to do his work. This semester he has turned in one assignment. Out of 12. Now, if his girlfriend can't motivate him to do his work, what chance does a fat old guy in front of the class have?
John, it's really too bad that you didn't get the teacher support you needed. You seem very insightful, but never got the adult validation you needed to bring the discussions you had with Corey into the classroom.
I'm happy to say that there are more "caring" teachers these days than what I remember from school. Jan is right--there are very few teachers who go into teaching to screw kids up. Most of them are like Mrs. Lieneck, Mr. Rittner, Mrs. Albrecht, who passed me through Trig even though I probably failed, and the others we generally recognize as being student-oriented). But I've met a couple, and I've worked with a few that actually have called (as Mr. Millett did to me) students "idiots". To their faces. It's very demoralizing. But then, success in life is 10% what happens to us and 90% how we respond to it. I shot him. No, just kidding. I wasn't anywhere near that gun. I think it was Barry. But I couldn't testify to it in court.
Okay, enough. I yield the floor to my colleague from Hastings, Senator Fine. Senator Fine?
Senator Howard?
Senator Fine?
Greg
-------------------- 35 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:44:36 -0500
From: Jim Katzenstein <jimk@starkaywhite.com>
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
>
Mark,
How could I forget! Yup, Mr. Feaster too. I must also add Mrs. Sims.
What a difference a teacher makes.
Jan, You are probably correct that the teacher I was referring to did
not say "dummies", he just insinuated it. Same thing in my non-legal
mind.
No doubt Ray Obreski had a huge impact on our class. I think it would
be fun if we all posted our recollections of him. I will tell you this,
he was very funny and kind too. Yes, you did read that correctly.
Jim K
-------------------- 36 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:24:56 -0800 (PST)
From: jan sidebotham <sidebothamj@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
Yes, I want to thank John for his letter, too, which has elicited some enlightening and thought-provoking conversation. . . Now, can we talk about those football players and the lasting damage they did by making fun of me?
-------------------- 37 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:27:52 -0800 (PST)
From: jan sidebotham <sidebothamj@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
i'm joking . . .
-------------------- 38 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:23:57 -0500
From: <afine@art-cetera.com> (Alan Fine)
Subject: Teacher Stories
I encourage everyone to please.visit and read (or re-read) the "Teacher Memories" section of our website, and to write new ones now while the stories are flowing.
There are links on the navigation bar on the left (Hastings Memories) and on the center panel (New teacher remembrances).
Alan
-------------------- 39 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:00:15 -0500
From: "Susan Craft" <craft@kyowa-kpi.com>
Subject: more thoughts on smart v not
Dear all - You can't imagine (or rather I guess you all can) the impact of suddenly having joined this group, and seeing these daily e-mails whizzing by on my computer. It is really awesome to see all the familiar names, and to read the diverse views you each had of HHS - and to see how you have now positioned yourself as adults.
Personally, I had a miserable high school experience. I always felt too dumb to be among the brightest, and too smart to be among the average. Betwixt and between, as David put it so well. It has affected my confidence my whole life, this sense of having made it to the top ladder, only to be hanging off the bottom rung.
I wonder if the school environment may have in any way fostered that? Food for thought - and things to watch out for wit my own daughter. By the way, she's adopted, so it's interesting that I don't feel any expectations on her scholarship based on genetics. That's freeing, in a way.
I really appreciate you all putting your thoughts down so cogently so many years later. Many of you made me feel soooo inferior, by the way. But that was always my problem, not yours! ;-)
It's great to hear from all of you!!
(By the way, for those who maybe are saying who's she? I graduated with your
class to get the heck out of that school, but was really in the class of '76).
Sue
Susan Craft
???? ????
Senior Director, Data Management
Kyowa Pharmaceutical, Inc.
phone 609.580.7330, fax 609.919.1111
craft.susan@kyowa-kpi.com <mailto:craft.susan@kyowa-kpi.com>
-------------------- 40 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:58:56 EST
From: Lotsoffish@aol.com (John Capuano)
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
ok...nice greg..but here is the question.and i do want to hear more......why
are we here?.. and where have all those who have fallen thru the cracks gone
?...there must be a few survivors out there to comment..or is all this cyber
communication just an extension of the "AP" syndrome..
...as for me....I didnt fall thru.....my dad was great support....my family
great[well, almost]..and there were a couple of very special teachers for
special john...its not me....i am taking about ray obriski...in the few
opportunities i had to speak with ray...i did see that glimmer...the light..a
long way
off but it was there .....intelligence ....sensitivity...humor..behind all
that show.behind the thickest of "shells"..why dont we all set out
to see why ray
and a few others fell thru so horribly? ...where was his family?.. his
friends.... and teachers?....even we as his peers?..we should have helped?...why
didnt we.?..couldnt we?....we could have redirected some of that AP time to
some
positive reinforcement for ray..instead ..we drove him farther and farther
away with things like detetion and suspension ...public embarrasment..just so
he
would not disturb the AP classes of hastings- on-hudson.....we talk about
going to some far off land to save the people...when our very own are dying
right
here in front of us ..., love john cap
-------------------- 41 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:12:02 EST
From: Lotsoffish@aol.com (John Capuano)
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
jan...anyone of those football players would have loved to "dance"
with
you...and you know it...... i remember the whole football team gave me a wedgie
one
day.....remember the atomic wedgie?...it was after practice one day....sure
i
was hurt...physically as well...but the next day i was in there with the best
of them looking for our next victim .....adolescence was not..should not have
been... a time for heavy thinking..like....let the wave push you to shore,
making little directional ajustments here and there...come on in!..the water
is
fine!.[we should have all been shouting to you jan].....the chance of a shark
attack was basically nil...love, john
-------------------- 42 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:15:06 -0600
From: Lynn Harbin <lharbin@swbell.net> (Lynn Marquard Harbin)
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
Hi! Haven't heard from me in a long time, huh? Well, I read all the
emails but am not good about posting. I just felt I had to chip in on
this one.
In high school, I was a half-n-halfer, math and science AP, regular
English and history. I guess I was considered "smart", but I worked
very hard at it. I had to. My father is, and has been, an alcoholic
for as long as I can remember. He was very demanding and abusive
(verbally, not physcially, thank God) when he didn't get his way. I'm
sure a few of you knew (Barry had to sit through some excruciating
Sunday dinners with Dad), but I'm sure most of you thought my life was
the perfect happy life. Unlike my sister Lee, who curled up into a "who
needs anyone, I can be an island" shell, I desperately sought to please
everyone. It was my way of dealing with Dad at home, and it is how I
was at school to my teachers. If, as a "smart kid", I had been ignored
because "I didn't need the attention" as someone on this website said,
I
don't know what would have happened to me. I am so thankful that my
teachers were positive towards me. Mr. Savarino was particularly
special to me. I am sorry, Mr. Savarino, that I don't remember much of
your teaching style like Dave Virrill does so well, but I remember
something you did once that meant a lot to me. Barry and I broke up
after the 11th grade and I was very, very hurt. You know, teenage girl
"I'm going to die" feelings, but on top of that were the "I'm
too
worthless for a boyfriend - Dad is right" stuff. I stayed after school
one day for some unknown club (I joined everyting I could so I didn't
have to go home - Dad was home by 3 every day drinking), and I was in
the locker room hall. Mr. Savarino walked by on his way out and asked
me if I was waiting for Barry. I told him no, that we had broken up,
and he said, "I'm so sorry, out of all the high school students that
date, I thought you two had a real chance to make it." WOW! An adult
who thought of me as a person with real feelings. My parents couldn't
understand and kept telling me to get over it. Maybe Mr. Savarino
doesn't even remember it, but I will never forget. It really helped me
as an adult. Just like John Capuano who took his not being encouraged
and using it to make him a better adult to a needy child, my
circumstance made me a better listener to children. I had the good
fortune to be a teacher's assistant and help troubled children. I got
lucky and was able to help a child just by being able to talk with him,
not at him because of Mr. Savarino.
Well, anyway, we all had our individual problems in high school. I'm
not looking for sympathy; I just wanted to say that everyone needs
attention from teachers and how much it can mean. By the way, I would
have loved to have known (dated?) John Capuano in high school, but Dad
was specific about who I could be friends with and not and I did not
want to cross him up EVER. Besides, I was always afraid of being
rejected. The same with never getting to know the cheerleaders (I felt
inadequate next to you guys.) I needed to have everyone like me, and if
there was any chance that I thought someone wouldn't, I didn't even try
to get to know them. Sorry!
Lynn Marquard Harbin
-------------------- 43 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:17:14 -0800 (PST)
From: jan sidebotham <sidebothamj@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
could someone please get capuano to register his laptop as a dangerous weapon?
-------------------- 44 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:27:02 -0800 (PST)
From: jan sidebotham <sidebothamj@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
Jim, I didn't mean to somehow excuse the jerk who implied that there were dummies
who shouldn't go on your mom's tour. (And hurray for your mom for seeing beyond
the labels and standing up to the teacher.) There definitely were those categories
and labels. I think I wanted to say that that kind of behavior is a disgrace
to the profession of teaching, and I'm embarrassed for those jerks. Actually,
half the time I feel like I'm part of a big system that hurts as many kids as
it helps. Education is so broken . . . And, Glenn, wow, I loved your letter.
So honest and revealing.That should go on the website in a memoirs section .
. . And blessed be the peacemaker, Louise Francis . . I feel like I have learned
so much from my classmates in the last 24 hours.
Okay, I'll shut up for a while. . .
-------------------- 45 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:20:03 -0800
From: "lfrancis" <louise.francis@comcast.net> (Louise Francis)
Subject: RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
.... and thanks to John for getting it started, in his stylish way --
shaking things up with charm and a smiling heart. But Jan, don't shut up
-- I need to laugh -- thanks for being both comic and straight-man to
the other comics -- laughing is the only way I can handle these
wonderful, important and hard stories -- I've learned so much from them.
Lynn, thank you for sharing yours. I threw myself into school and
activities for similar (although less hard) reasons. Home was
unsupportive, angry and unpredictable; I needed to escape. And as long
as I was under my parents' roof I couldn't escape through dating -- I
couldn't even think of showing a romantic interest in any boy who was a
normal adolescent. My Dad's parents married because my grandmother got
pregnant; it was a horrible, painful, sad marriage that scarred him in
many ways. There was an awful story on my mother's side with worse
consequences when her sister got interested in guys in her teens. Many
of you realized long before I did that my parents were trying to put us
in virtual chastity belts. (They got a bit better with each successive
daughter.) In high school I only dipped my toe in the dating waters with
guys from a church far away because Mom & Dad assumed they were saints
and they weren't able to witness them acting unlike saints around town.
They say middle age is a 2nd adolescence -- from the sound of this email
chain I'm hopeful we'll be experiencing it with more humor, empathy,
without the cliques and knowing it is up to us to help the kids going
through it the first time. I can't help but end with the words from a
song that I've always assumed was about a young girl's suicide that
still speaks to me -- it's from that 1970s guru for adolescent girls --
Jackson Browne -- the end of "For a Dancer" ... "Somewhere between
the
time you arrive and the time you go, lies a reason you were alive that
you'll never know."
Louise
-------------------- 46 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:45:42 -0500
From: "Susan Craft" <craft@kyowa-kpi.com>
Subject: RE: more thoughts on smart v not
Did anyone manage to receive this not garbled (see below)? Basically it was me saying how at HHS, I always felt like the dumbest of the smart...and was wondering, based on all these very interesting points, if that was more me or more the school. It has certainly followed and impacted me my whole life. As David said, betwixt and between - on the top ladder, but the bottom rung.
Sue
-----Original Message-----
From: Hastings Class of '75 (plus or minus a few years)
[mailto:hastings@art-cetera.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:22 PM
To: Hastings Class of '75 (plus or minus a few years)
Subject: more thoughts on smart v not
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-------------------- 47 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:15:43 +0000
From: dmcquickly@comcast.net (Greg Vaughn)
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
To everyone else in the world who never loses sleep over the crack-fallers: John is the reason we need to try. See the humanity, the concern, the understanding that comes from people who are left behind. They know things the rest of us couldn't even conceive of.
Frankly, Ray scared the hell out of me. Now that I'm an adult, I see those difficult students and understand that their fate is out of their hands. Life dealt them a hand with no chance to win. It's incredibly sad. Most of them, like Ben whom I mentioned in my earlier email, have no support system whatever. Their family provides a hostile environment. Look up "Maslow's hierarchy" on the internet and read about his pyramid. Nothing else I've come across in education training explains so clearly why Ray probably turned out how he did and how you, John, turned out how you did.
A good friend and fellow teacher of mine had a miserable childhood: Alcoholic father, schizophrenic mother, constant moving around the country. His sister is an alcoholic and drug addict, spending time on the street for periods of months before going into rehab, drying out (and getting a roof over her head), moving in with friends or one of her children, then starting the cycle all over again. Why didn't Michael turn out like that? How did he turn out to be a noted expert on labor union history, especially here in West Michigan? What motivated him to achieve when, from the very same family, his sister failed utterly to overcome that? He credits his mother, who, though mentally ill, gave him love and cherished him in her "well" periods. But he also talks about going to school and exercising his brain, and how a couple of teachers responded to that positively and encouraged him. He's pretty sure he would have grown up to be homicidal if it hadn't been for that. He has a temper, but rarely shows it, and he's the most considerate person I know. He's another who takes special care with the crack-fallers. (We often trade stories on those students, compare notes and strategies.)
John, I suspect you are where you are, and Ray wound up where he wound up, because of the things you identified in your email--family, teachers who accepted you, and some inner desire to do something with your life. Ray may have had that at one point, but before he ever entered school the die was probably cast for him. I would guess that early on he got the reputation he got, and teachers shied away from him in his grade school classes. To self-medicate the pain all of that caused--mostly the loss of family love and nurturing we all have the right to expect, especially from our parents--he got into drugs. The cycle continued. I got to Hastings in 8th grade, so I never had the opportunity to get to know him before then. By the time I got there, well, like I say, he scared the hell out of me. Whereas I would have enjoyed hanging out with you, I think (you seem really insightful, and I always enjoyed that trait in people the most), I never would have even considered a friendship with Ray. No way I could have changed him, and he was generally around people who reinforced his self-destructive tendencies (without knowing they were doing it).
Really--look up Maslow's hierarchy. What an eye-opener it was for me when I learned about it in Master's school.
Greg
-------------------- 48 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:25:14 +0000
From: dmcquickly@comcast.net (Greg Vaughn)
Subject: RE: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
Well now I feel much better about never being able to get Louise to date me! Louise, you could have told me this 30 years ago and saved me hours of therapy! lol
Greg
-------------------- 49 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:25:40 +0000
From: dmcquickly@comcast.net (Greg Vaughn)
Subject: RE: more thoughts on smart v not
I'm really bad with Scandinavian runes. What is this?
Greg
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Hastings Class of '75 (plus or minus a few years)" <hastings@art-cetera.com>
> ÿÿñk¢…$È4d°Oó…ÿþùÿý©l¯ø§r[Šxµæœ…êìý©Ýþ‹az•«,zÿÿÿ0
ü ,DÈ?ðNÿÿî
> z׫o÷(›øZ²Ø§‚ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ
> «^ÿõžïó
-------------------- 50 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:01:10 EST
From: Captmando@aol.com (John Capuano)
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
Maslow's hierarchy.."man is a perpetually wanting animal".....i do
agree with
that....
but okay greg..you have downed me with the big intellectual guns..it will
take a few weeks to absorb"all" of maslow..some of maslow.....probably
a year or
so to defend an arguement....if lucky.... i will come back with an answer
then....but correct me for now if i am wrong....according to the
"hierarchy"...if you fit certain criteria..you are doomed to it?...how
horrrible is
that?.that means i couldnt change a thing......lynn couldn,t..and ray certainly
could
not........cappy
-------------------- 51 --------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:02:13 EST
From: NYCFD1@aol.com (Ray Paletta)
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't ray crushed by a garbage truck while at
work?
i remember that around 5-10 years ago..
ray
-------------------- 52 --------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 01:40:55 +0000
From: dave.walters@comcast.net
Subject: Re: what about A.P?..and all the other clubs?
Cap got a wedgee? Really? Pictures! Any pictures!!!!
David
PS (Cap, going back to Alaska for you-know-what...in July).